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Woman: OK. Well, the shame ones over here. (She gestures a little to her left, hands about two feet apart.) And its round, oval. Its—the brightness is a little less than normal brightness.
Steve: OK, its a little dim.
Woman: Umhm. Its 3-D.
Steve: Which way is it oval, by the way? You said it was—
Woman: Like this.
Steve: And then youre tilting a little bit. (Her right hand is about six inches higher than her left.)
Woman: Umhm.
Steve: Kind of like that?
Woman: Yeah, except the people in it are standing up, but the part of it that I see is like this.
Steve: OK. So its kind of like that. OK. And so there are people in there?
Woman: Umhm. Im one of the people.
Steve: Youre one of the people, so you see yourself in this. (Woman: Umhm.) So its dissociated. Thats a wise move, by the way. Just for a moment, just for their edification, what would happen if you stepped in? ...
Woman: (shaking her head emphatically) I couldnt!
Steve: No way! OK, thats fine, thats enough. You understand the difference? Now, lets think about the other one for a moment. So its on the other side?
Woman: OK, its... yes. Um—
Steve: Tell me about that one.
Woman: Its more to the right, over here. I guess its square (she gestures in a rectangular shape, about 2 wide and 8 high), although its three dimensional, and... the brightness is normal. Its further back, and Im in and out. I mean, I—
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